oywz

"既然您也知道有些科学理论也是要凭信心接受的"
Actually, the theory of science must be proved using enough proofs before it is accepted, which is different from the case of religion. Whether the proofs that surpport the theory of Darwin is enough or not, I only say that I don't know. The scientists are still looking for these proofs in order to study the details of evolution. Most of Scientists have considered this theory to be right or at least reasonable until now because so many proofs have been found, except that many christians are agaist it because the theory is not in agreement with the bible. But even some other christians admit that "evolution theory" is right after all.
http://www.xys.org/fang/doc/religion/pop.txt
Indeed, the scientists are very careful, sometimes too careful, to accept the scientific theory. There are other examples for the scientific theory. Boltzmann, you know his important contribution to statistic mechannics, had ever been very disappointed because most scientists at that time din't agree with his theory and at last he killed himeself. After his death, many scientists began to accept his theory and proved that his theory is coorect. Einstein is lucky. He sticked to his relative theory although so many scientists are against him until some experimental truth which surpport his theory appeared. Even though, he didn't get Nobel Prize for his relative theory because the proofs of relative theory are not enough yet(He received the Nobel prize for another contribution). If the relative theory is not agreement with the bible, I think many christians also probably tend to be agaist it.

"毕竟我们都是用信心过日子的"
Your "FAITH" is not others' FAITH, at leatst is not the same as mine.
http://www.xys.org/xys/ebooks/others/philosophy/Russell/10jie.txt
(Although my opinion is a little bit different, I think most of his ideas are reasonable.)

"若ajie1a您是出于对我们的关心，因为看到我们“走错路”了，才这么心急地对我说“你一定不信我有什么办法？”，那么我在这里感谢您。"
So, can you understand those who don't believe your religion? You will not change your religion even if others tell you that it is not right. Why the christians always want to let others believe your religion? Do you respect others' freedom of thinking and the freedom about religion?
"己所不欲，勿施于人". Is it?

oywz

原帖由 ajie1a 于 2006-9-3 23:52 发表


不要这样，这句话就是对你说的，我知道你明白，要是真不明白，也不愧是“鄙”人了。



说说看哪个物种的进化没有证据，看我能不能找出来？



我不是咄咄逼人，虽然宗教信仰(此处尤指基督教）中的迷信部分屡此 ...

http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=2142(小议华人基督徒的宗教信仰)
http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=2141  (论宗教(信件片段))
http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=1867
(汉文化与基督教并不存在双重认同)
http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=2088(没有免费的午餐——基督教与“西化”)


  http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=2118(指出科学中的缺陷无助于证明神学的成立)
http://www.kxwsl.com/readnews.asp?newsid=2143(再论宗教 -科学家信神就能证明宗教了么?)


http://www.kxwsl.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=2129
(美一法院判决在中学讲授“智能设计论”违宪)
http://www.kxwsl.com/readnews.asp?newsid=2130(Ｄｏｖｅｒ官司背后的背后)

[ 本帖最后由 oywz 于 2006-9-4 18:26 编辑 ]

ajie1a

OYWY提供的链接太好了，其实现在、宗教对技术发展的限制已经开始显露，我所知道的就是人体干细胞和转基因农作物方面，有人认为这是人类干了上帝才能干的事，不过你觉得50年后的世界还会是现在这个样子吗？

小瞳

到底什么是基督徒所“信”？   http://www.jonahome.net/Article/article/2006-3-31/495-1.htm

为什么我自己不觉得需要信仰   http://www.jonahome.net/Article/article/2006-3-31/454-1.htm

拒绝基督教的5个错误理由和你应该信仰基督教的5个理由     http://www.jonahome.net/Article/article/2006-3-15/54-1.htm

ajie1a

在这里我想为我们的讨论提一些建议，就我自己而言，对小瞳 贴出来的链接中的内容从来没有仔细看超过五行，对于oywz的所贴也是一样，不是说他们不好，而是因为这些链接出自于有太强的偏向性的网站，这样的文章的说服性显然不是很强，我建议我们尽量少引用类似“科学无神论”或者“约拿的家”中的大段文章，而引用中立网站的一些链接作为讨论证据是毫无疑问没有问题的。

关于进化论，我也读过几本书，在相关论坛里也泡了几年，如果 粽子！粽子！对现有进化论有什么疑问的话， 我们可以一同探讨探讨。

oywz

原帖由 ajie1a 于 2006-9-5 19:52 发表
在这里我想为我们的讨论提一些建议，就我自己而言，对小瞳 贴出来的链接中的内容从来没有仔细看超过五行，对于oywz的所贴也是一样，不是说他们不好，而是因为这些链接出自于有太强的偏向性的网站，这样的文章的说 ...

Yes, we should better look at diferent opinions and have a comparison, though making the judgement is not so easy.
For the christians, in my opinion, it is not a good way to only read books written by christians and only listen to what your christian organization is saying because they have the obvious aim to let others believe the religion or strengthen christians' "FAITH".

Can you give the web address about "evolution theory"?

ajie1a

有关进化论，我一般是看下面这几个地方：
中国恐龙网
中国古生物网
特别推荐中古论坛

oywz

原帖由 我爱天涯 于 2006-9-6 21:29 发表
ajie1a ,很钦佩你这种追求知识的精神。其实大部分基督徒在信主之前都有这样的疑问，但是我们凭着我们对教会的好奇，也有对团契里这种团结，友爱的氛围的喜爱，更有对人生追求的探索，所以才会克服刚开始时的疑问而 ...

"德国中文图书馆"?
I think I know it. Is it built by the christians?
I had ever looked up the contents of books in this library and noticed that most of books are related to chistians and their religion. To borrow the books doesn't need to pay money(the christians are too kind in order to broadcast their religion).

Did you see ajiela's words like this? "因为这些链接出自于有太强的偏向性的网站，这样的文章的说服性显然不是很强"
The case is similar about the book you refered to.

To the chiristians, I would like to cite some sentences from an article:
"基督教另一个令我反感的地方就是它宣传自己代表着唯一的真理， 教徒们常常用现代科学中的某些理论来附会圣经中的说法。 我曾经为此和几位基督徒争论过， 我对他们说如果你们老老实实地宣称基督教是一种宗教， 一种信仰， 它不是科学， 那我对此毫无异议。 我从来不认为宗教在人类社会中没有存在的价值。 但你们试图把圣经视为符合科学的东西， 并用现代科学来论证它， 就太虚伪了。 如果你们真的相信现代科学的话， 我可以轻而易举地把圣经的创世记驳得体无完肤。 如果你们不相信现代科学的话就别用它来论证圣经。 选择性地使用现代科学的成果来论证圣经， 却有意回避现代科学揭示圣经荒谬之处， 这是一种极不诚实的做法， 用这种手段来误导不懂科学的人， 混淆视听， 你们难道不觉得问心有愧吗？ 他们无言以对。 (当然我实际上用的语气远没有这么咄咄逼人)      我告诉你这些只是说明为什么我自己不喜欢西方宗教， 而不是说信教的人有什么不好的。 宗教的产生部分地是由于人们要寻求精神寄托， 它有善良的一面。 我所认识的不少基督徒待人十分友善， 这是很难能可贵的。 现代人生活得太喧嚣， 心灵上却又太寂寞了。 当一个人孤单无助的时候， 如果相信冥冥之中有一个全能的主宰者仍然和你在一起， 并可能会帮助你， 这的确是一种很好的心灵安慰。"

Helen101

若萍走的时候你来了吗？若萍常提到你呢？
谈那么多的大道理有什么用呢？人是有感情的，不是吗？

Helen101

要是你能把你发帖子的时间抽一点出来多帮爱你的那个人做点事情，帮她分担一点，比在这里说这么多有益处呢。